CT-SEN: Pissing Off All The Right People

bumped - Matt

First the right-wing blogosphere, then the Wall St. Journal editorial board, and now the uber-D.C. insider Stuart Rothenberg are all hysterical about the fact that Connecticut Democrats just don't seem to like their best friend Joe Lieberman that much anymore:

It doesn't seem to matter to those angry Democrats, or to Lamont, that Lieberman is widely respected for his thoughtfulness, integrity, civility and intellect. Or his overall voting record....

It isn't just that Lieberman is a centrist, however, that makes the primary challenge to him unseemly. Not all centrists deserve to be re-elected any more than all liberals or all conservatives do. Rather, it's the Connecticut Democrat's stature and character that, in another day, would make a primary challenge to him by a former Greenwich selectman laughable....

Krugman already ably debunked the "Joe as centrist" myth earlier today.

But when 33.4% of party insiders in a roll call vote are willing to put their names forward against a sitting senator, it's pretty tough to claim he is "widely respected" anymore.

Obviously, Rothenberg wasn't talking about the feeling among Joe Lieberman's constituents, or even among his party. He was talking about the prevalent feeling in the GOP-dominated D.C. punditocracy.

You know, Lieberman's real "base."

That all being said, Rothenberg's contempt for the democratic process throughout the entire article is absolutely disgusting. Not even the most popular incumbent should be immune from a primary challenge. We need more challenges, not fewer. No, Rothenberg isn't spilling pixels on this because someone had the gall to run against an incumbent senator. Rather, he's furious that someone like Ned Lamont is having so much success... and like his insider buddies, he sees what might be coming in August and he's scared to death of it.

If the argument for re-electing Joe turns into "vote for him because D.C. insiders and Republicans think he's swell," then winning in August will be much easier than I thought.

(Cross-posted at LamontBlog.)



Display:


What bothers him more? The 34% (none / 0)

who publicly said"George Bush's favorite Democrat shouldn't receive my Party's nomination or the others who spoke to some of the 34% and said "I wish it was a secret ballot and I would have voted for Lamont?"

Oh and another thing?

Tell Rothenberg being a Selectman is a highly respected position of government in New England.

It is GREAT training to be a US Senator.


by merbex on Mon May 22, 2006 at 02:31:12 PM EST

Just another issue (none / 0)

Its not a real war if you can change the channel.  


John McCain loves war.
by Winston Smith on Mon May 22, 2006 at 03:00:32 PM EST

Re: CT-SEN: Pissing Off All The Right People (none / 0)

Keep it up folks. Just drive the party right off the political cliff.  We lose people like Joe Lieberman the Democratic party really will be a permanent minority party.  


by ditka on Mon May 22, 2006 at 03:40:36 PM EST

Wrong formula (3.00 / 3)

With Lieberman the Democrats are a permanent minority party. Where have you been the last six years?


Join the Nedheads at YouTube.
by Scarce on Mon May 22, 2006 at 03:48:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CT-SEN: Pissing Off All The Right People (none / 0)

Ditka ~

So you're contention is that we should stay the course and stick with these Bush buttlicking "Democrats" like JoeNomentum who have sold us down the river time and time again? And, how has that been working for you for the past six years? Please refresh my memory and tell me how this has proven to be a successful strategy for us ...


by Oregonian on Mon May 22, 2006 at 06:54:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CT-SEN: Pissing Off All The Right People (none / 0)

We are in the minority because we get away from the Centrism of the 1990s.  As Democrats we need to accept the fact that right now the public does not trust us to keep them safe, push for policies that keep our economy growing and competitive against China and India, or be smart with their money.  That is why even in a year when it seems everything is going our way we are still only looking at taking the House with a 5-10 seat majority.  

Running as a bunch of Howard Dean style liberals is not going to make that situation any better, and will probably make things much worse.


by ditka on Mon May 22, 2006 at 03:57:25 PM EST

don't look now (3.00 / 1)

that 1990s centrism lost the house and senate, and we haven't been in real control since. we've tried your way,. and got the disaster of the past 6 years. time to sit down and let someone else have a shot at saving the party, you centrists have blown it.


by wu ming on Mon May 22, 2006 at 04:01:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CT-SEN: Pissing Off All The Right People (3.00 / 2)

1. Even accepting your flawed premise that we as a party need to return to the "centrism of the 1990s," it's worth keeping in mind that Joe Lieberman was never a centrist. He originally won his seat in 1988 by playing to the radical right, who absolutely despised Lowell Weicker.

2. Why would any sane person trust Joe Lieberman to "keep them safe" or be "smart with their money" at this point, after fully supporting Bush's diasterous war of choice and Bush's tax giveaways to big oil and other billionaires? Please explain.


by tparty on Mon May 22, 2006 at 04:43:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CT-SEN: Pissing Off All The Right People (none / 0)

Howard Dean style liberals?  You mean budget-balancing tax-cutting right-on-the-war Howard Dean types?

So you don't think the public would vote for us, even when they agree with us?  Even when events prove us right?

In that case, just what are we supposed to do to make things better?  Elect some Joe Lieberman liberals (and the record shows Lieberman is far more liberal than Dean) who can't even follow their own consciences?


3.39/-3.27 * Save the Moderates
by ChetEdModerate on Mon May 22, 2006 at 06:02:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CT-SEN: Pissing Off All The Right People (none / 0)

Wu Ming,

That is complete nonsense.  Democrats lost the House because from 1972-1992 we let you lefties run things and it destroyed the public's confidence in our ability to handle defense, the economy, crime, taxes, and being in touch with their values.  

Those feelings, which had been played out in the Presidential elections of 1972, 1980, 1984, and 1988, were finally expressed at the Congressional level.  Running as Centrists in 1996 and 1998 did help the Democrats begin to repair the damage.  

But then in 2000 you guys took over again (remember Gore's populism and his slogan the people v. the powerful).  In 2002 lefties in the Seante let our loyalties to the AFL-CIO allow the Republicans to use the debate over the Department of Homeland Security to make us look weak.  And in 2004 John Kerry ran on an economic class warfare platform that was clearly out of touch with middle class voters-which is why he lost all middle class voters by 3% and white middle class voters by 15%.

At some point you are going to have to admit that a majority of Americans preferred George Bush to John Kerry.  And that the way to actually win elections is not to run to Kerry's left, where there are all of these imaginary non-voters who are dreaming of a liberal to ride in and finally give them a reason to vote, but to move to the Center where the voters really are.

   


by ditka on Mon May 22, 2006 at 04:21:38 PM EST

The trick (none / 0)

The real trick is not moving to where the voters are, but moving the voters to you.

That's what conservatives have done.


.08 Acres
.0000016% of Massachusetts Political Commentary
by sco on Mon May 22, 2006 at 04:50:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're deluded (none / 0)

Snap out of it.


Join the Nedheads at YouTube.
by Scarce on Mon May 22, 2006 at 04:54:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh riiiight... (none / 0)

I forgot that Ned Lamont was running for president.


by tparty on Mon May 22, 2006 at 05:10:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CT-SEN: Pissing Off All The Right People (none / 0)

First, you halcyon days of Democratic centrism were an electoral nightmare. Back with your guys running the show in the '90's, the Dems LOST 11 Senate seats and 46 House seats. You call this a winning strategy?

Second, you seem to forget that Gore won with that "people versus the powerful" campaign. Not only him, but Dems in the Senate (+4 seats) and in the House. Despite the success of this message among real Americans (as opposed to beltway types such as yourself and the professional pundit class), this was the last time progressive language was employed by a Democrat in a national campaign. Since then, our heros in the Dem party in DC have reverted back to '90's form, losing three more consecutive elections.

Centrists have been running the Democratic party show since arguably the mid-70's, certainly since Reagan was preznit. To what effect? Gradual relagation to minority party status. You guys simply suck. It's time to shit and get off the pot.

Christ, even your hero preznit Clinton gets that, when he says folks who can't fight should get out of the way...


by redstar67 on Mon May 22, 2006 at 05:27:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CT-SEN: Pissing Off All The Right People (none / 0)

ditka, I feel for you, but you simply have the facts wrong.  When Democrats had the Congress from '59 to 1994 we had conservative southern Dems running key committees more often than not.  Our last two speakers were conservative Texas Rep. Jim Wright and conservative Eastern Washington Rep. The Honorable Tom Foley.

We lost the House because conservative Democatic Senator Hillary Clinton (then first lady) wrote a health care plan that could never pass and pasted a giant target on us as command and control liberals.  Then conservative Southern and Western Dems stupidly went along with an 'assault rifle' gun ban that passed by one vote without Republican support and made rural America justly furious.  Rural former-Dems rightly saw that gun ban as a Pat Buchanan-esque first strike in the cultural war we've been losing ever since.  Each one of those blunders cost us fifteen House seats alone.

And both those blunders are due to the conservative wing of the party.

In 2000 with the people v. the powerful we won back seats in the House and the Senate.  Lots of seats.  Then in 2002 we went back to milquetoast Bush enabling dems and lost worst right in the places (GA-SEN, MO-SEN) where our candidates kowtowed to Bush the most.

Your post reads like you haven't been paying attention at all.


3.39/-3.27 * Save the Moderates
by ChetEdModerate on Mon May 22, 2006 at 06:12:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CT-SEN: Pissing Off All The Right People (none / 0)

Scarce,

Are you referring to me or Sco?  


by ditka on Mon May 22, 2006 at 05:00:22 PM EST

Re: CT-SEN: Pissing Off All The Right People (none / 0)

Maybe if you had a clue of "threaded discussion", you wouldn't have this problem.


by ElitistJohn on Mon May 22, 2006 at 05:14:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is immaturity the hallmark of Lamont's bloggers? (none / 0)

Lamont's pottymouth progressive bloggers are going to be his own worst enemy. The foul-language is a HUGE turn-off, and as representative of Lamont's campaign and base it's prepubertally self-dismissing. Connecticutt NEEDS a mature statesman who has surrounded himself with experienced staff and mature-minded supporters.


Connecticut needs an experienced stateman, not a wannabe cartoon hero.
by SeedFreak on Mon May 22, 2006 at 06:55:04 PM EST

Ever heard Ned curse? (none / 0)

Me neither.

You know what's really immature? Arrogant, whiny quotes like this:

"I'm going to be the winner of the primary... so I will support the winner."


by tparty on Mon May 22, 2006 at 08:18:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CT-SEN: Pissing Off All The Right People (none / 0)

RedStar67,

If Gore won, who was the President on January 21, 2001?  That's who won the race, and it wasn't Gore.

Oh yeah Centrists ran the Democrats when we put up Mondale and Dukakis.  Keep dreaming

The word is president.  If you want to talk like a moron than go hang out on some street corner.

ChetEdModerate,

Just this phrase "conservative Democatic Senator Hillary Clinton" shows how completely out of touch with the average American you really are.  And your analysis of 1993-94 is that we lost Congress because of our support for TWO LEFT WING IDEAS - gun control and government run healthcare.  Thanks for making my point that running as fire breathing liberals will put us out of the mainstream.

As for your little history lesson I never said the Democrats did not run Congress from 1959-94.  What I was discussing is how left wingers took over the party in 1972 (McGovern - your parents version of Dean) and what did to our ability to operate in the political mainstream.      

As for this ridiculous argument that the People v. the Powerful won Democrats elections, who won the presidential election?  Tom Carper did not run on People v. Powerful, Carahan won in MO because of sympathy over a plane crash, Gramms was too conservative for Minnesota, Cantwell and Stabneow barely won in squeekers.  Those are hardly ringing endorsements for your lame populism.

Just remember this, in August all of you Deaniac-Wackivists are going to get a beatdown from the man you hate the most in the Democratic Party - Senator Joe Lieberman.  


by ditka on Mon May 22, 2006 at 07:11:15 PM EST

Re: CT-SEN: Pissing Off All The Right People (none / 0)

Wow, we haven't had such an energetic troll on this site in a while.  You are amusing ditka.


by hotshotxi on Mon May 22, 2006 at 07:35:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CT-SEN: Pissing Off All The Right People (none / 0)

I'm glad somebody else was brave enough to use the t-word. I was going to post that ditka sounds eerily like Rush Limbaugh, and that Mike Ditka is a far-right winger.


by Baltimore on Mon May 22, 2006 at 09:25:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CT-SEN: Pissing Off All The Right People (none / 0)

Hmmm, Ditka, you have an amusing take on what right and left are, and an amusing take on contemporary political history in the US.

Gore didn't win the election in 2000? Don't know too many Democrats who weren't sore about the selection of Dubya. I s'pose you might just be one of that rare breed.

Those 4 senate pickups in '00 after 11 net losses during Clinton's term were a fluke? Christ, even the TNR crew was disagreeing with you in the aftermath of that election (go back and read Chait, y'know, one of left blogostan's favorite pundits...not.)

Reading you, I am reminded of arguments with GOoPers, where not only we have fundamental disagreements about what the meaning of events and facts are, but we have disagreements about the events themselves.

I am thankful for your input here, though. You see, I've been wondering one thing these past few years. In poll after poll, there is a smallish counter-culture of self-identified Democrats who strongly approved of Governor Bush's performance. Something like two percent. I couldn't believe such a thing possible. But here you are, the null hypothesis to my contention  that this consistent two percent was within the margin of error of zero.


by redstar67 on Mon May 22, 2006 at 10:24:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CT-SEN: Pissing Off All The Right People (none / 0)

It'd be nice if one of the right wingnut Democrats (aka "moderates") who post here regularly could interpret for us why the Democrats went from being strongly in the majority in 1992 to very nearly locked out of power in 2006 while the Frum/Lieberman/Biden wing of the party has had a lock on upper echelons of the party apparatus.

Hearing them constantly bloviate to the contrary is one of the more contemptible forms of bad faith I see hereabouts.


by redstar67 on Mon May 22, 2006 at 10:29:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Question about the CT convention (none / 0)

I read a couple of articles about the convention and have a question that maybe someone here can answer.

Did Lieberman really NOT attend? What I read seemed to indicate that some other state office holder gave his acceptance speech. If this is true I can hardly believe the arrogance. I was a party delegate to my state (MN) in 04 and our Senator appeared and spoke even though he wasn't running in 2006. For Lieberman NOT to attend would have sent an incredible message of "I don't care what you think" to the party delegates.

Did he attend?

Thanks!


by joyousmn on Mon May 22, 2006 at 10:48:01 PM EST

An observation and a question (none / 0)

All of you folks love to have someone to blame.  Its Karl Rove, or the DLC, or the media, etc.  But its never anyone on the left wing of the party.  McGovern, Kennedy, Mondale, Jackson, Dean, none of them deserve any criticism.  

FYI, I was pissed that Bush won.  But I was more pissed that Gore ran his stupid populist campaign and alot of holier than though liberal voted for Nader in states like New Hampshire and Florida.  

But I would like one of you political experts to please tell me why now in 2006 when Nancy Pelosi (a liberal from San Francisco) is our leader in Congress and Howard Dean is running the DNC that the Democrats, despite all the bad news the Republicans have to carry going into the fall elections, can only look at maybe having a 5-10 seat majority in January?  Maybe it is because the public does not think we are in the center and does not trust us to keep them safe, push for policies that keep our economy strong and competitive in the face of global competition, or be smart with their tax dollars?  If it is not that, what is it?  Please inform me.  When I wake up tomorrow I would love to know what the political experts of this blog think is stopping us as Democrats from closing the deal with the American voter.


by ditka on Tue May 23, 2006 at 12:23:40 AM EST

Re: An observation and a question (none / 0)

The reason why the American public agrees with what they think Democrats believe in (you know, 80/20 things like get us out of the war in Irak, do something about insanely high health care costs, be fiscally AND socially responsible, put together an energy plan that also recognizes climate change) but can't bring themselves to vote for real Democrats is that they see who those real Democrats are.

Who are they?

Your guys. The "centrists". Joe Lieberman. Hillary Clinton. Diane Feinstein. Joe Biden.

And they just don't see 'em as credible.


by redstar67 on Tue May 23, 2006 at 12:32:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An observation and a question (none / 0)

"FYI, I was pissed that Bush won.  But I was more pissed that Gore ran his stupid populist campaign"

That's pretty telling, y'know.


by redstar67 on Tue May 23, 2006 at 12:35:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CT-SEN: Pissing Off All The Right People (none / 0)

The sad reality is that the wingnuts and the Bushies have tried to push this country so far to the right that what used to be perceived as the center is now considered liberal!  So if I were Joementum, I'd be worried knowing that the "liberals" are out to get me.  But Joe is too wrapped in his Faux News mouthpiece role to realize that he is losing the left AND center.  Look back at comments from the convention on Friday.  Observers were amazed that much of Lamont's support came from small-town locations that are typically thought of "conservative".  Ditka is entitled to his opinion, and obviously we can't change it.  So let's focus on winning the primary and the general!

Btw, Lieberman was at the convention and addressed it, but he left before sundown and the vote results.  I won't accuse him of arrogance for that early departure because it is a well-known fact that he religiously observes Shabbat (the Jewish sabbath) which begins at sundown on Friday.  There is much to criticize Joe for.  This is not one of them.

Having said that, let's focus on victory for Lamont!  "I want Lamont" bumper stickers, anyone?


by Phonatic on Tue May 23, 2006 at 02:40:35 AM EST


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.